The following is a transcript of Episode 17 of Return on Podcast, the show where we help e-commerce sellers improve their ROI in business and in life. For more episodes, subscribe to our YouTube channel or listen on Podbean, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.
All right. Welcome to Return on Podcast. My name is Tyler Jefcoat, wanna welcome you to the show today. This is the show where we talk about the habits, the hacks, the obsessions, the strategies, of the most successful e-commerce entrepreneurs. In our episode today, we kind have a special episode, and I’m really excited because it’s a topic that’s near and dear to my heart. I’m an accountant. Here’s the problem with being an accountant. Most accountants are historians. I had a thought leader say in a talk last week that accountants tend to be the ones that go around the battlefield. Like bayoneting the wounded, like we’re not doing a whole lot. We’re just looking at what happened in the rearview mirror.
But if you can combine business analytics with accounting, now we have the ability to actually not just make the things happen that need to happen from a compliance standpoint, but we have the ability to actually give us action actionable intelligence so we can move forward, make a better living. That’s really meaningful.
And so today I’m excited to talk to my friend Parag as the founder, the CEO, the boss, the big cheese at Webgility, which is a venture backed software company that helps solve the problems that we are talking about here. And so Parag, welcome to the show.
Hey, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely. And a little inside baseball here. We record these episodes every week and it’s highly unusual that we have to record one twice, but my friend and I here got about halfway through the recording two weeks ago and we’re like, wait a minute. There’s something wrong with the audio, the video isn’t good. We can’t, it’s just, it wasn’t worth it. I wanted to represent his brand better than I was. And so I appreciate you coming back on the show. It’s not trite, man. It’s really meaningful to me. So thank you, pal. Listen, I wanna talk about your journey for a minute, and I wanna talk about business analytics, and I wanna talk about how Webgility is really pushing the frontier out in terms of how to use data better in these e-commerce brands.
Give us a little bit of a glimpse into your journey from Arizona State to building your first software company to Amazon, then into Webgility.
Yeah, of course. Yeah. Thank you. I’m sure most of your audience kind of wants to get to the meat and potatoes. So I’ll keep this brief, but highlight is I’ve been in the e-commerce and SMB market and space for over 20 years now. I started my career building e-commerce websites for small businesses and ran an agency for about seven or eight years. So I’ve done a lot of hands on work, really building. And at the time, the Shopify didn’t exist and we used to build websites on X-Cart at osCommerce, so I’m dating myself.
Built websites and then had the wonderful opportunity to work at Amazon for a few years, running a platform there called Webstore. And that was their SMB e-commerce platform similar to Shopify, which they actually divested later on. But we ran that for a few years and then I started Webgility really as a, kind of a marriage of those two experiences, right? Both of those experiences taught me that small businesses and e-commerce was gonna be really thriving. And the bigger, biggest challenge I saw at the time was just fragmentation.
Data was everywhere and especially accounting data and financial data, which, you could get away with your CRM system, having money data, you could get away with manually doing spreadsheets for some aspects of your business, but your accounting has to be buttoned up. It has to be compliant, and that financial data needs to be very accurate and up to date. Lots of systems, lots of places for e-commerce businesses to sell and systems to use.
But there were great tools out there to really put all the data together and really help the small business make sense of it. So that’s how we started Webgility. And the idea was simple: how do we get all of this financial data that’s floating in all these e-commerce systems and neatly package it up so that it would be easy to reconcile. And of course, to your point, we start off thinking, okay how do I just do all the historics? How do I get, the last months or last quarters of bookkeeping done and get all the sales tax details and so forth done. But looking ahead, it’s okay, what is that telling us about the future?
And that’s been the evolution of the company, but yeah, looking back, it’s been 20 years, we raised some money, some capital to fund Webgility’s growth, but just ran it proudly bootstrap for about eight years and then decided the market was growing really quickly and needed to fundraise. We have some great investors and yeah, we’re excited to be part of the small business ecosystem and have worked with lots and lots of accountants and accounting firms and small businesses over the years. So excited to share more and chat with you about what the future holds.
Yeah, absolutely. It’s so interesting ’cause I think you’re right. I think there’s the account, the controllership part of accounting as the average brand, first of all, the average CEO wants to not think about it if he can, but you’re correct in saying it’s gotta be right. And there’s so much data that can steer you the wrong direction.
I’ll give you an example. I was on a call with a CFO client just this week who, new CFO client, looking at this data historically, and realizes right away, I’ve underpriced my product for the past six months, given Amazon fees, and I’ve actually had a negative net margin on that product for six months.
And that’s a that’s really troubling insight to receive about your business, right? Like if you and I sold an engagement or a subscription or whatever, and every time we sold it, we get sadder. It wasn’t happier, it was sadder, that would be pretty yucky, but it’s also really powerful insight because it allows us to actually pivot and make the right choices to, to develop our brand.
And so I’m just really passionate about this. I don’t wanna just be a historian, although the historicals are critical because the best predictor of how my brand is gonna perform next year is kind of what it’s doing now. I love when you look at a, I love in a facetious way, when you look at a P&L forecast from a brand, and they’re like, I’ve lost money, I’ve lost money, I’ve lost money, but guess what? Starting next month, I’m gonna have 90% margins forever. I can’t, I’m unstoppable. And so for the entrepreneur in me, I know that having absolutely unassailable black and white financials is crucial.
And so just making sure that those numbers are not foggy, because if they’re foggy, I’m gonna tell myself the most optimistic story possible. If they’re clear, it can force me to make different choices. I’m just kinda curious as you’ve looked at brands developing, you guys serve a lot of ’em like, I don’t know. What are you seeing is either what’s happening currently right now with these e-commerce brands or what are those core tenets of making these businesses profitable?
Wow. Yeah. Listen, over the last decade, they say it’s gotten easier to sell. The reality is it’s just gotten easier to launch a store. It hasn’t really gotten easier to sell. Selling is hard and the more businesses that have access to e-commerce channels, the more competition.
And what we’re seeing in the marketplace, and especially with the pandemic, it’s given everybody whiplash, you went from, two years ago where no one knew the future and didn’t know if e-commerce was gonna survive and how we were gonna actually deliver packages to the height of kind of 2020, 2021 where boy, there was not supply of products and you had, ships, containers backed up on the various ports to be able to deliver those goods. So we’ve just seen such a whip saw of effect in the e-commerce market. And brands have had to adapt through every one of those cycles.
And again, if I’m to think about where we are today, today we face a whole other set of macroeconomic challenges, right? So brands have lost, I think, one of their biggest key differentiators, which was their ability to be able to market to customers across platforms. And as everybody knows about the privacy rules that were implemented initially by Apple and recently also by, by Google, in the Android operating system. With the privacy issues, basically what’s happened is you now cannot track a user across multiple sites, and that’s resulted in the cost per click and the cost per acquisition to skyrocket. It’s getting so much harder to find your customers.
And now all the brands are really forced to arm themselves with first party data. Who is my customer so that I have the flexibility to market to them? And so you’ve seen this dramatic change in how brands get access to customers and how they can grow marketing to those customers has become absolutely critical. On the other end of the spectrum is you get the customer. The big other challenge is who’s my supplier? What’s happening with my supply chain? Have I forecasted my demand sufficiently so that I’m not running outta stock because I could get the most customers I want, but if I don’t have the goods to fulfill… So you’re really seeing this real squeeze on brands today.
That on the one hand they’re struggling to really make cost effective their channels of acquisition. And on the other hand, they’re struggling to get their supply chain really in, in shape. And then of course, I would say everything in between has always been a challenge, which is number of channels. They sell on the number of systems they use. So it’s, don’t let anybody fool you out there that selling’s easy and e-commerce is pain free. It’s getting incredibly hard to sell. It’s incredibly hard to stay competitive. And most importantly, to your question, it’s becoming incredibly hard to be profitable in e-commerce and the margins are shrinking dramatically.
And frankly, the simple answer to solving a lot of that is both having the data so that you can understand what’s happened, but then having tools and the skills at your disposal. So you can try to look a little bit into the future and plan. And I posted a quick message on my LinkedIn the other day where I basically said, listen, as an entrepreneur, I think about the current market as really opportunity, right?
This is the time to build. Yeah, this is the time to think about what our systems are. This is the time to think about how am I running my operations so that I can accelerate again, who are my suppliers? How can I solidify and create backups for my supply chain? What am I outsourcing and offshoring and what can I bring it onshore and in house, right?
What are the skills I’m missing in my team? Again, I know I’ve said a lot there. Coming back to the basics. Yeah. Profitability is the biggest challenge, and how do you make sense of your financial data so that you’re making money and investing in the right places? That visibility and insight is super key, especially this, this particular moment of time.
I was even, I was talking to a thought leader yesterday about this, Parag, and we were discussing the fact that just what you said there in a recessionary, bearish, headwind kind of marketplace that we’re in right now. That’s actually not always bad news. It does create opportunities. Almost all wealth transfer, if you will, happens during down markets where leaders of companies make the right moves. And, but what it does mean is that the things that worked on an easy button three years ago aren’t gonna work anymore, for a couple reasons. One is there’s just even not the, not just Amazon, but in general, there’s a little bit of maturing happening with the with the ecosystem.
You combine that with lots and lots of competitors. You combine that with a little bit of market headwinds in terms of literally there’s some categories on Amazon where sessions are down over where they were last year. And all of that adds together to say, okay, this is not gonna work. If I continue doing the same thing, but it may be an opportunity to pivot a little bit or to do something that actually carves out a true competitive advantage and one of the things that I was talking to Kristen about yesterday, which was A, finances can sometimes be that opportunity to really try to identify on a more granular level which of my products are performing, which of my channels are performing so that I can, knowing that there is noise in the advertising attribution world as you mentioned a second ago, that means I can’t afford to just shotgun approach my advertising and my marketing without having real business analytics behind my decisions.
And I just, I’m just affirming what you said there. That’s totally true. And I guess this is a bit of a broad question, but what is your advice to brands right now that are feeling the pinch, right? I There is some pinch right now. They’re like we get it, dudes. Thank you. I wanna pivot. I wanna be the one that wins and is the outcome that’s positive, but what are some keys that you would say maybe need to be implemented by these $1 to $10 million brands that can make them unusually successful in an unusually weird market?
Yeah, I think the first and foremost I would say is diversification. So we’ve seen brands that have relied too heavily on a single channel for their success, and far too often, we see them being bit. If you’re relying on only your e-commerce channel to drive growth, or you’re relying on only one marketplace to be where you should be in the future, I think that’s a losing strategy. Multichannel is what’s going to drive your future. You have to diversify your channels. So if you’re a brand with just one channel, diversify.
Number two is get your operations in order. If you are going to build a successful and fast growing business, especially during this particular time, you have to automate and operationalize as many of your systems as possible.
Not only are we seeing incredible challenges in the jobs market and costs, labor costs are rising dramatically. This is the opportunity where software wins. And I know you might feel like a shameless plug, but this is the truth for Webgility as a company. We each have transitioned and we always look to transition more and more of our own operations into software. We’re users of 30 plus SaaS applications, right? We, we practice what we preach here, and finding ways to optimize your business and really operationally take control, I think is the second big thing you can do.
And the third thing I would say is, is, what are you doing with all of the data that you have? Do you have the insights? Are you doing the analysis to tell you how things are going? What’s funny for me is I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, and metrics and KPIs seem this foreign language to many. And I asked a very basic question is, is your blood pressure and your temperature a metric to you?
No, it’s telling you your health, right? So your financials are not something that your accountant needs to handle to just file your taxes. Your financials are telling you the health of your business. And so you have to have a really good handle on all of your data. And I actually think it’s broader than just financial data.
You gotta have all your customer data. You gotta make sure you have all of your customer’s emails, addresses, contact information, that you’ve got a solid CRM or email marketing platform that you can talk to them. You gotta make sure you have all of your support data in place. So you know where your customers are doing more returns, where you’re getting more tickets from your customers.
So data I think is absolutely important. So what we’re seeing that brands that are successful are thinking about diversification, doing more, selling on more channels. We’re seeing brands really think about their operations and finding ways to automate. And we’re seeing brands that really are leveraging and leaning in on these systems to figure out what their data needs to look like so that they can be smart about it.
And, beyond that, there’s a lot of stuff that entrepreneurs are always thinking, new ways to, for production, optimization in your supply chain, marketing attribution. Those are I think, green field sort of things that you always have to do. But at this moment in time, I think you have to diversify, put systems in place, and get real good handle on your data. That’s what successful brands are doing right now to pave themselves for the future.
That’s really well said, all three of those points, Parag, and the last 24 months probably created an unnecessary, not unnecessary, but an arbitrary distraction from that clear business model. ‘Cause there was so much capital flooding into the space that was rewarding, very linear, simplistic, single channel, five SKUs, one supplier kind of businesses. But I agree with you completely in that as the capital markets continue to clam up a little bit in the middle of 2022, this is a bit of a win for common sense to say, hey, your ability to exit in the next three to four months is not what it was a year ago.
And so now it’s time to think about how to build a fundamentally solid business. And then diversifying from just Amazon, if that’s your only channel or just Shopify, if that’s the only, your only channel is going to force you to build some operational sophistication and you can’t do that with confidence unless you know how to use the data, including financial and customer data. And so I think that’s extremely well said.
So let’s talk about Webgility for a minute. So Webgility is a tool that helps with several of these data related problems. I think it can, I’m saying this, not you, you can be in advantages for your brand, but it’s a tool that can help create some order with your data to make it easier to scale your operation, and it can make it easier to sell on multiple platforms. How does Webgility meet brand owners where they are right now in the current market?
Yeah. Listen. Again, I’ll spend less time trying to promote Webgility here, but I’ll just speak to what the broader problems are the marketplace, right? So the first and foremost is the more diversification and channels you have the first and most simple thing you need is you need line of sight to what’s happening across your channels.
When you’re selling on one channel, you’re looking at the performance of that single channel and to bring the data together so that you can make sense. Multiple channels, so our, one of our products which we recently enhanced and released was Webgility Intelligence. You simply plug in your e-commerce channels, and it gives you these elegant dashboards that are prepopulated.
You don’t have to do any configuration whatsoever, just plug in your system, and it gives you an elegant report of what’s happening in your business today, what’s happening this month. What are your trends over the years? And what does the future roughly look like? So put it very simply, how’s my, what’s happening across all of my channels?
So that’s one of our applications. The second application we have is essentially for accounting, and so financial data is how do I get all of the data that’s on all of my systems all the way from my revenue, all of my expenses and fees, my Shopify and Amazon settlements and payouts. How do I neatly get all of this information, make sure all my books are up to date, but then really, how am I seeing my profitability. How do I know what sort of revenue I made? What are my expenses, which channels are making me money, which products are making me money? Where am I losing so that I can make better sense and make better decisions about the future.
And then third, from an operational standpoint, we have a number of other capabilities, whether it’s keeping all of your inventory across your channels in sync, ’cause the more you diversify and sell on channels, tracking inventory and going outta stock is an issue. Make sure it can list my products easily, make sure I can manage prices across my different channels. So ultimately we serve about 5,000 small businesses and most of our small to medium size businesses. Our sweet spot sellers are anywhere from a few million in GMV, all the way to about $50 million in GMV.
For that base of customer you cannot run your business effectively by logging into your channel and trying to do it from there. You need a tool that brings it all together, gives you line of sight. So the business owner can keep track of the analytics. Your operations and e-commerce managers can be managing the inventory and the workflows there, your finance and accounting professional can make sure that the bookkeeping, and your accounts and sales taxes are buttoned up on a monthly basis and reconciled, but yeah, you gotta arm every one of your team members with the right tools. And that’s the solution set that we provide, and we feel that’s, that’s quintessential to, to being successful right now and has been, I think, for some time for a successful kind of mid-market SMB seller.
It’s so good. One of the hidden nuggets that you just said there, I wanna make sure people catch this is, wise man once told me don’t ever use people to solve a process problem. And I think if we’ve learned one thing in the past 12 months is that some of our large private equity backed investors in the space didn’t develop good data processes. They just hired a bunch of people. And yes, now people plus process plus data warehousing good software can really be a powerful tool for growth.
But if I just hire a thousand people hoping I can solve this really complex problem, I’m actually gonna make the problem worse sometimes. And so I think, don’t miss this folks that are listening to this, like having a way to distill this mountain of data into something that’s actually usable by the teammate. Now you hire a teammate and they know what to do with it. Now they can make tactical operational choices, changes, pivots based on the data, instead of you hiring 50 people. I’ve done this by the way. I’ve tried to hire people to just like spreadsheet jockey the hell out of something.
And eventually you, you either get it right, and then it’s old. It’s like the aging value of that report is, now it’s not worth anything anymore, or you have human error. And so I just think having that software is really a, is a, can be a real difference maker. Anything else you’d wanna say about that and how people can view their data in the process right now?
Yeah, listen, I think everyone listening to this show probably knows the importance of software, right? I think the key is that there’s a lot of software fatigue out there and there’s I need an application for everything. And I would encourage everyone to start thinking about software applications as solving a certain pain point and being a critical part of your daily workflow and then other software that’s really keeping you informed, right?
That’s your kind of way of monitoring what’s working, what’s not working. And so being methodical about that, and our number one customer is the business. So the business owner is connecting all of their channels and thinking about how am I doing? So yeah, there’s a lot of software out there, a lot of software fatigue out there, but you really want to think about what problems do I have and how is this actually helping solve that for me without adding more complexity and burden for your team.
And that’s one of the reasons why we include white glove onboarding with many of our packages, because we don’t want you to have to worry about how this thing works. Let’s set it up for you. Let’s plug it in, let’s train your team on how to do it and use it properly. And frankly, a lot of it’s autopilot, once you’re set up and running, have the software running for you and doing that manual job so that you don’t have to constantly be fidgeting, messing with settings.
That’s so good. Okay. So listen people are gonna wanna know more about Webgility. This is a powerful tool, you’ve been on the market a long time, and the iterations that you guys have made improvements over these last couple years are really impressive. I’m eager to take another look at it, even for our firm.
But if people wanna learn more, obviously Webgility has a website, but what would be a great next step for someone who’s ah, this set of problems is really resonating. I may want to try to explore Webgility as an option. What should they do?
Yeah. Listen just go to Webgility.com. We have a pretty great video library on our website and a YouTube channel as well. We have live chat on our site and there’s a journey. Start your journey. It asks you a few sets of questions that you can determine whether, what’s the right software for you and we’ve got e-commerce advisors waiting to answer questions about what you might need. We have free trial for applications, like most asset software out there, but yeah, really just reach out, talk to us and engage with a lot of our kind of video content, and that’ll give you good idea of what all the different offerings are that we have.
Love it. Love it. So you guys do that. If this is a problem that’s feeling hot for you right now, how do I survive the, not just survive a recession, but actually build value for my company through it? Might be diversifying, I might be looking to build more sophistication in my operation.
I may wanna be able to use data better. Webgility could be a great partner for that. Parag, just to pivot here to outside of business, listen, you and I are both family guys. We’re both fathers of two. We’re both wrangling kids and employees and trying to figure out how to scratch out a living and everything else. What is it that you do to unwind that gives you joy in your life outside? Yeah,
Yeah. We, we have a four year old and soon to be one year old. In fact, both their birthdays are here in the next week. But yeah they’re the joy, they’re the pride, they’re the reminders every day of why we do everything that we do. I think as an entrepreneur, I’m a, I’m certainly probably responsible for this, you, you don’t spend enough time with your kids. So I like to take as much time out on the weekends I can to spend time with them. But yeah, the two kids are probably the ones that take up most of my personal time.
Before that I was, big fan of music and live shows. So used to go to a lot of concerts and so forth. But yeah, that’s all that’s changed since the kids are around. We are here at the moment in Arizona. Soon we’re gonna be moving, so I’m excited about that, but yeah, it’s, it’s really hot. It’s about 110 degrees here, so we spend most of our weekends in the pool. That’s the only way to pass the time here.
Yeah. Had a colleague in Chicago talk to me yesterday about how she doesn’t believe in air conditioning in her home, and I was like I was like don’t move to Arizona and don’t move to Georgia.
If it’s against your philosophy don’t, don’t marry a guy that lives in those places. You just need to stay up north because that philosophy breaks down quickly if it’s 95 and a hundred percent humidity, or if it’s no humidity and 110, that’s that’s horrible.
That’s right. That’s right.
All right. So I’m gonna quick pause, pop quiz on books. I think some people will take away from our podcast, just something they want to do. Is there a book that’s in your top five for developing as a leader, developing business, developing mindset, anything. I wanna make it broad? Do you have a favorite?
I have lots. I guess I’ll share my simple philosophy about books is that, I don’t think there’s one book that sort of changes your life because your life evolves and you need to find the book for the time. And as an entrepreneur, I’m constantly on this journey of, what challenges am I facing now, and how do I solve them? So I’ll share a few books that, that come to my mind.
The most recent one I’ll say is Amp It Up by Frank Slootman, the snowflake guy. I would definitely highly recommend that for CEOs. Amp It Up will, as the name implies, I think it’ll get you fired up. It’ll get you charged up and your leadership team excited and charged up. How do you dial it up with your team? How do you take action? How do you make everyone think about the future, break down walls and make movement happen. And that’s a business book.
I think the other one that comes to my mind is Lessons of History. This is a really I would say maybe an orthogonal choice, but it’s a book by Will Durant. And it’s a look back at hundreds and hundreds of years of our history and what that teaches us about the decisions we make, both in business and personal life. And, I’ve learned a lot from that book over the years. Yeah, I can think of a few more, but yeah those two come to mind right now. I think those would be good reads, not very thick reads as well so yeah. Both Amp It Up and Lessons of History.
Beautiful. Thank you. Those are great. I actually grabbed those in my notes sheet here. Cause I’m gonna go grab ’em. Thank you. All right. Pivot to the last kind section of each of our episodes here, Parag, it’s called the ROP. You’re a successful guy. You’ve done a lot of cool things in your career. Now you’re managing a family while doing that.
And my bet is that there are some practices, habits, some hacks, some things that you’ve implemented daily or weekly into your life that are the reason you’re able to carry the load you carry. What are the things, a couple, could be business, could be personal, of habits that are really giving you an unusual return on investment in your life?
First and foremost is meditation. Pick your time. If you’re a morning person, a night person, and there’s like a gazillion different people that’ll tell you to do this in a variety of different ways. For me, what’s really simple, what’s, what really works is just finding that 20 to 30 minutes first thing in the morning to just sit down, shut your eyes, and just think, meditate, let whatever thoughts come to your mind and let them go and just help process.
And for me, usually about 5:30ish in the morning, and that first 30 minutes is actually what’ll determine how the rest of my day goes, because if I can spend that 30 minutes to just really gather myself, center myself, give my brain a chance to just process everything that’s happened, it sets me up for success for the rest of the day. It’s 30 minutes and because we have kids we have to start even earlier. It used to be a 6:30, seven o’clock ritual. It’s now become a 5:30 ritual before the kids are up.
But yeah, that’s, I think for me, that would be, I’d say that’s the most, that’s the one that’s had the most profound effect on the way that I run my business and really just think about life and my daily work.
And then, if you can follow that up with another 20 to 30 minutes of whatever the exercise you have, I personally prefer yoga, yoga, meditation, running, like whatever exercise that really works for you physically, you need to give yourself I think exercise your mind and exercise your body. And that’s really, I think what helps you become what I think of entrepreneurship as being an athlete, right? You’ve gotta really train your mind and your body to be able to be success.
That’s so well said. By the way, my kids are eight and 10, and so it has reverted back to 6:00 AM for me, but it was 5:00, 5:30 for a while. So you’ll get that back, but that’s really good counsel. I honestly think about how much money LeBron James invests every year in his body and in his mindset. And if we are not doing little things and expect, if we expect to be able to perform at a peak performance level and we can’t take care of our bodies, exercise, meditation, journaling. I think we’re fooling ourselves. I think that’s really good counsel, Parag. Anything else you wanna leave the group with before we close up this episode?
No. Listen, I just wanna say to everyone out there, I know the markets are really tough, and the markets look a lot too far into the future. Right now what we’re facing in front of us is a great jobs market, a great economy. There’s a lot of people that are, demand’s still pretty high. There’s a lot of fluctuations in the categories, in the segments that are going ups and down, but if you’ve got a solid business, you’ve built a solid brand, I’m the perpetual optimist.
This is an opportunity to build. Use the time to really think about your business and build. It’s 2023. There’s been no time like this ever in the history of mankind to be able to leverage technology, to experiment and build whatever it is you want to put your ideas to work. And yeah, the opportunity is there. Don’t shy away. This is not a time to, to hide. This is time to build.
Amen said, and couldn’t say it better. And I think with that we’ll close this episode. Guys, thank you for joining Return on Podcast. For those of you who’ve made it 34, 30 minutes, whatever into this show, we just, Parag and I do not take that lightly.
That’s, your time is valuable. We’re grateful. Hope that you can implement a few of the things that we’ve said and wish you a great week. Hope that just as Parag just said, this is not a time to sit and wait. This is a time to be proactive into the future. And with that, let’s end the show. You guys go out there and kill it. Take care.